Mr Lebowski

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Posts by Mr Lebowski

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  32

  Our own personal growth and leaving

  by Mr Lebowski in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first, the tee-up: many on this board are former jws.

  former jws fall into two categories:.

  1) those who consciously chose out, perhaps as an intellectual position, perhaps as an emotional reaction to some event, maybe while in the throes of some existential crisis.. 2) those who blew it, and got busted for (cue music) breakin the law, breakin' the law, breakin' the law.

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  Mr Lebowski

  Logansrun, you win the award for first acknowledgement of my handle. (tell him what he's won, Bob!)
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  39

  Who would be our dream team of "apostate" debaters???

  by Confucious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, guys.

  i'm at a hotel tonight and just relaxing.. so i felt a mimimus question coming on.

  if we had to elect 3 members on this forum to debate any 3 members of the borg, who would you pick?.

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  Mr Lebowski

  Looking for backup, eh, minimus? :)
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  207

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

  it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

  how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  OK, that's it - tantrums and arguing are not advancing the state of knowledge.

  First it's a democracy because I'm in the minority, then it's an autocracy since you're in charge. Yah, smack the noob around. :)

  I'll let gary and pork chop take the baton, since you don't seem to want a piece of them...hee hee. Have fun, mini-you.

  Peace, out.

  "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." Anaïs Nin
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  29

  Baptism Nullification- will it work for you?

  by joe_from_kokomo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  dear friends: .

  however, it appears to have been effective, as i have not heard a peep from anyone at bethel or the local elders either.

  from our point of view, we are now free of the entrapments of the watchtower cult, and i feel that it is important to share this with those of you who may need an alternative to the two "official" methods of leaving: disfellowshipping or disassociation.

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  Mr Lebowski

  Uhhh...I don't want to sound like an idiot (but obviously I'm willing to take the risk) but what's the purpose here?

  Two personal observations:

  F*&$ing with the WTS within their own organizational rules is kind of like writing a letter to the editor (or arguing on a discussion board) - you ain't never gonna get the last word (for proof, see my running debate with minimus re: mind control here. We may keep this up until the economy turns around :) It's like arguing with a pig - it wastes your time and annoys the pig. (No, I am NOT referring to minimus as a non-kosher animal!)

  The more energy you give this, the less you will have for consciously, purposely building the new life you seem to have chosen. Look forward.

  We don't need to see what is behind us. Dean Martin, Cannonball Run.

  Peace and success,

  Duder
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  207

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

  it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

  how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  but dood...it's your thread.

  You're the one saying it's so obvious, and you're the one saying you're a bit surprised that I don't see it.

  Time for the old Socratic approach... I am very ignorant, illuminate me.

  "Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uhhh... Now you tell me what you know." Groucho Marx

  Chew your food,

  El Duderino
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  207

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

  it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

  how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  Definition of Socratic Method (for those of you keeping score at home)

  1. The method is skeptical. It begins with Socrates' real or professed ignorance of the truth of the matter under discussion. This is the Socratic irony which seemed to some of his listeners an insincere pretense, but which was undoubtedly an expression of Socrates' genuine intellectual humility. This skepticism Socrates shared with the Sophists and, in his adoption of it, he may very well have been influenced by them. But whereas the Sophistic skepticism was definitive and final, the Socratic is tentative and provisional; Socrates' doubt and assumed ignorance is an indispensable first step in the pursuit of knowledge.

  2. It is conversational. It employs the dialogue not only as a didactic device, but as a technique for the actual discovery of opinions amongst men, there are truths upon which all men can agree, Socrates proceeds to unfold such truths by discussion or by question and answer. Beginning with a popular or hastily formed conception proposed by one of the members of the company or taken from the poets or some other traditional source, Socrates subjects this notion to severe criticism, as a result of which a more adequate conception emerges. His method, in this aspect, is often described as the maieutic method. It is the art of intellectual midwifery, which brings other men's ideas to birth. It is also known as the dialectical method or the method of elenchus.

  3. It is conceptual or definitional in that it sets as the goal of knowledge the acquisition of concepts, such as the ethical concepts of justice, piety, wisdom, courage and the like. Socrates tacitly assumes that truth is embodied in correct definition. Precise definition of terms is held to be the first step in the problem solving process.

  4. The Socratic method is empirical or inductive in that the proposed definitions are criticized by reference to particular instances. Socrates always tested definitions by recourse to common experience and to general usages.

  5. The method is deductive in that a given definition is tested by drawing out its implications, by deducing its consequences. The definitional method of Socrates is a real contribution to the logic of philosophical inquiry. It inspired the dialectical method of Plato and exerted a not inconsiderable influence on the logic of Aristotle.
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  11

  Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening!

  by SpannerintheWorks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how are you today?

  feeling good about life, or do you want to change something?

  how is your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  b, anyone can come here - like the world in which we live, there is no security.

  If you can't tell what advice you'd get here...here it is. Run away.
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  32

  Our own personal growth and leaving

  by Mr Lebowski in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first, the tee-up: many on this board are former jws.

  former jws fall into two categories:.

  1) those who consciously chose out, perhaps as an intellectual position, perhaps as an emotional reaction to some event, maybe while in the throes of some existential crisis.. 2) those who blew it, and got busted for (cue music) breakin the law, breakin' the law, breakin' the law.

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  Mr Lebowski

  Thanks for sharing some fascinating stories (or even hinting at them).

  I wonder how many of us levered ourselves out of the WTS because we met someone who made us feel special in a romantic way. Not that we met someone who controlled us out of it, but where we felt like a real individual.

  I suspect that many of these relationships didn't work out for us in a long-term way - we weren't ready for a relationship, and we probably weren't even ready to pick someone who was a good candidate (I wasn't, both counts), but I bet a lot of us were so starved for affection that we bolted as soon as we got some from another source.

  Comments?

  "Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire Love and doughnuts,

  Ed Duderino
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  207

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

  it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

  how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

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  Mr Lebowski

  I didn't think I would be logging on before I left on Sunday AM, m, so that's why I thought I would be offline.

  Minimus, since you're advancing the proposition, perhaps you could tell us what mind control means to you - define it, and give an example of MC and an example of something tht is not MC. I am interested in Gary's thoughts, of course, but since you are making the assertion, minimus, share with us what you mean, please.

  "'In God We Trust.' I don't believe it would sound any better if it were true." Mark Twain

  El Duderino
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  10

  Anthony Robbins... GREAT Healing.

  by Confucious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey guys, .

  for the past few years, i've struggled tremendously with depression and an overall sense of low self worth.

  i've been a fan of anthony robbins (self help guru) and read a couple of his books, but i strongly recomend the tapes "lessons in mastery.

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  Mr Lebowski

  Tony's cool.

  Marianne Williamson, A Return to Love, is also very cool.

  And check out PSI Seminar's Basic class (over a weekend) if you're on the West Coast.